Sunday Afternoon (9/16)
Hi all:
This morning we looked at two issues, viz, what non-believers believe, and what believers don't believe. Was there perhaps enough in common for true dialogue to occur? I spoke of the religious speaker who addressed a group of university students. One student says "I just want you to know, I don't believe in God." The speaker replies, "Tell me more. Maybe I don't believe in this God either."
We asked what we would tell Mehta (author of "I Sold My Soul On eBay") our community was about. We said, "People who follow Jesus the Christ." We added to this the understanding that to follow Jesus means to take seriously his teachings and his presence. I suggested that many Christians either emphasize the teachings to the exclusion of the presence (and end up in a kind of Jesus Memorial Society), or the presence to the exclusion of the teachings (and end up with a Messiah who just happens to champion their particular cultural/economic/political agenda).
Great discussion last week on the blog, and this morning in the class. Keep it going!
Pastor Terry
5 Comments:
Sorry I couldn't be in class this am.
Terry, the story of the religous speaker brings up an issue that came up as I've been reading the book. He mentions "THIS God". Is that to imply that there is some other God? Mehta, in the book, says "your God". My understanding is that this is a monotheistic religion and I'm wondering what the party line is on that. Do the majority of Christians really believe that there is only one God for all people on earth, or do some believe that there is a different God for Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists...?
And then to further confuse me, I took a look at the Ten Commandments. #1 - Place no other gods before me. Hmmm - is this an acknowledgement that there are other gods out there? Or was the true intent lost in translation? Then I look at #2 - No idols, please. Is this God making his point because these other gods often have idols that represent them, or is there truly a distiction between gods and idols? Help! Thanks.
Colleen,
I think sometimes people who use the expression "your God" etc. are referring to a specific concept of God, and not that there are various gods for various people.
I say "sometimes" because I can't always tell with some people. Some will say there is one God, and we know this God, and you over there don't. The God you worship either doesn't really exist, or is a demonic force.
Idol refers to an humanly contructed image or concept of God that is substituted for the real God.
The real God being (for the Christian, I think) the One who reveals himself in Christ. Often, we forget that our thoughts about God are idolatrous, and are in constant need of reformation. (I touched on this a little in the sermon this morning.)
One of my favourite theologians says that the God of the Christians is not the Christian God. Knowing God "better" does not mean we own him "more." (This may be the primary sin of the fundies.)
Regarding the commandments, it is an open question whether they were written during a time when the Israelites actually believed that there were many gods (henotheists) or whether the commandment refers to the construction of false gods (i.e., idols).
Your questions move from the theological, to the biblical, to the historical, to the sociological. Who was it who said, "Everything is connected to everything else?"
Pastor Terry
Awesome Terry, thanks!
I woke up with somewhat of an answer to my own question and I'd like to try and articulate it here.
I think you're spot on when you say that people who say "your God" are referring to a specific concept of God. In my yoga/ meditation practice, there is no concept of God that brings hell, fire, and damnation upon his creation. The goal is bliss through love. One way we obtain that bliss is through meditation. One of the "goals" of meditation is to see the "Blue Pearl" in your third eye. Okay, maybe that sounds a bit far fetched, but does it at least, I hope, remind you of the parable in Matthew 13:45-46: The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls; on finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it. What I love about these parables is that when the people find the Kingdom of Heaven, they have not yet died - they searched while living and found it while alive!!!
So, having tasted this loving God, it is difficult for me to accept the Christian concept of God. Perhaps when Jesus refers to God as the father, in our humaness we began to attribute the human qualities to God that we observe in our earthly parents - parents that favor one child over another, parents that punish their children that do wrong. But how can a forgiving God be that? Isn't God full of unconditional love? I find it hard to believe that through anger, vengance, and ultimately hatred, that creation can occur. Creation occurs out of love - even as humans, if you don't like to write or paint, you will never write a great book or paint a masterpiece. It just does not make sense to me. I think a huge part of Jesus' ministry is to really drive home, especially to the Pharisees, that God really does loves everyone, all of his creation, no matter what. It seems that some Christians have unfortunately become like the Pharisees, judging (another human quality we attribute to God?) people they consider less than them. People they say will be damned to hell, when really it's God's place to judge. So sad.
Am I way out of line here?
Peace and love!
"Perhaps when Jesus refers to God as the father, in our humaness we began to attribute the human qualities to God that we observe in our earthly parents - parents that favor one child over another, parents that punish their children that do wrong."
Bingo. Who was it who said: "Humanity was created in God's image. So we then went ahead and returned the favor"?
This is why Jesus is essential. Without him, we in our humaness/falleness will ascribe to God all sorts of characteristics that are unwarranted. "He is the image of the invisible God."
The complete image? Complete enough to get me back on the right track.
As for the Kingdom, yes, it is a present reality that finds its fullness in the future. With the resurrection, the bringing about of the kingdom of God is inevitable, if not methodical!
PT
thanks Terry, very comforting
A little poetic interlude, I’ll see everyone tomorrow
I believe (translate: layman’s incomplete opinion) that:
Christ is The Way,
The Way the first Christians knew,
The Way Saul of Tarsus persecuted,
Before he was bent low
On the road to Damascus
The One, The Creator,
The God of a universe 15 billion years old
Such a rare and precious thing,
Our species and the last 2,000 years on a blue planet,
With the words of a Messiah
The God of Israel, Christ and Mohammed
Abraham, Noah and Moses
Job and Judges
Samson and Daniel
David
The God of all us,
Suffering here together,
Seeking happiness,
Fulfillment,
Mostly just passing the time
Time, like the surface of a ball
Finite, but boundless
Hard, and unforgiving
Held firmly by God
The God of Jesus of Nazareth,
A gift of a Lamb
To those of us who need a teacher,
Advocate and mediator,
Source of redemption
The Way Paul the Apostle knew,
The best way I know
αγαπη, abode, charity, love
Not the only way to love God,
The Way
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